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Board index Tech N/A (4-6 Banger)
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IndianaJones
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Post subject: Sidedraughts & Throttle bodies Posted: Fri Oct 17, 2014 4:20 pm |
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rookie |
Joined: Sun Oct 20, 2013 5:07 pm Posts: 94 Location: Western Cape
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Hi guys
How do you determine which size sidedraughts / throttle bodies (ITB's) to run on an engine?
I suppose aimed hp/kW, cylinder head flow rate, application, etc are determining factors?
Secondly, because you potentially have more settings with ITB's, should you run smaller/bigger sized ITB's compared to sidedraughts? Depending on the application.
Regards
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Mario@C-TEQ
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Post subject: Re: Sidedraughts & Throttle bodies Posted: Mon Nov 10, 2014 5:03 pm |
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1 bar boost |
Joined: Mon Apr 16, 2012 3:39 pm Posts: 1073
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This can get very complicated and very technical.
Also very much depends on your application and how/where will be used.
_________________ sales@c-teq.co.za
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IndianaJones
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Post subject: Re: Sidedraughts & Throttle bodies Posted: Mon Nov 10, 2014 7:20 pm |
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rookie |
Joined: Sun Oct 20, 2013 5:07 pm Posts: 94 Location: Western Cape
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OK, let's try and narrow it down.
If you are also thinking about side-draughts, it's usually used with old skool engines...
Say high performance streetcar, can be used in traffic at a push, but mostly used on weekend for track days/gymkhana, etc.
Will run on 95, head probably flowed, high compression, cam'ed to make power higher in the rev range, but not loose to much low end torque.
Something popular like, a Nissan L18, Ford 2L Pinto, Toyota 22R, VW 2L 8V.
Which sidedraught would you use, versus which throttle bodies?
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Mario@C-TEQ
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Post subject: Re: Sidedraughts & Throttle bodies Posted: Mon Nov 10, 2014 7:51 pm |
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1 bar boost |
Joined: Mon Apr 16, 2012 3:39 pm Posts: 1073
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I think first decide on a motor, as the motor will play a big role.
Also you need to determine what comp max you can run on 95 with that motor.
My race motor is 13:1 comp with throttles, but it wont run 95 (wont be able to) with close to 300deg spec cam, 8500rpm limit. (sr20) My throttles are made up to work with that combo.
_________________ sales@c-teq.co.za
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Boksie
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Post subject: Re: Sidedraughts & Throttle bodies Posted: Mon Nov 10, 2014 11:41 pm |
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2 Bar BOOST! |
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Joined: Wed May 21, 2008 3:10 pm Posts: 15112 Location: Goorrood
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43 ITB's are 43mm right through, 43 Siddes are choked down to probably 38mm or so depending on the engine and setup.
You can run much larger ITB's than siddes because the fuel injection is controlled by a computer and the fuel is injected at high pressure and properly atomised. It's not reliant on the vacuum an engine can can pull, which is why siddes or any carb has chokes, to create a pressure differential between the outside and the inside of the carb ie. vacuum which in turn pulls in the fuel.
If your siddes are to large for the engine it'll either not run, run really kak or run only at very high rpm. With ITB's as can be seen with the 1.6 4AGE's running 45mm this is not a problem. We've fitted 43 ITB's to a 1400 Nissan engine and it ran perfect, it was a bit nervous with very small throttle movements making large changes, but it ran well in traffic and on the road, you just had to get used to not giving as much throttle as you used to.
_________________ My garage is so leeg soos 'n hoer se hart...
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IndianaJones
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Post subject: Re: Sidedraughts & Throttle bodies Posted: Wed Nov 12, 2014 7:19 pm |
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rookie |
Joined: Sun Oct 20, 2013 5:07 pm Posts: 94 Location: Western Cape
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Valuable input here, thanks guys. OK, I was hoping this could be some sort of general guide, for future reference, but will narrow down some more.
Engine choice: 2.0L 4-cylinder Datsun L20B @ 11.0:1 compression, 7500rpm redline
With this engine, Datsun competition cars used to run Weber 48's / Solex 50's and make 145kW@7200rpm, would 20V 45mm ITB's yield the same or better results, plus be more tractable, or do you need to run 50mm M3 ITB's?
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Boksie
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Post subject: Re: Sidedraughts & Throttle bodies Posted: Wed Nov 12, 2014 9:10 pm |
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2 Bar BOOST! |
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Joined: Wed May 21, 2008 3:10 pm Posts: 15112 Location: Goorrood
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45 ITB's would flow more and be more tractable.
_________________ My garage is so leeg soos 'n hoer se hart...
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IndianaJones
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Post subject: Re: Sidedraughts & Throttle bodies Posted: Thu Nov 13, 2014 8:42 am |
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rookie |
Joined: Sun Oct 20, 2013 5:07 pm Posts: 94 Location: Western Cape
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Thanks Boksie
Would it flow much more? Enough that one might have to opt for 43mm throttles?
And what size injectors would you recommend?
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Boksie
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Post subject: Re: Sidedraughts & Throttle bodies Posted: Thu Nov 13, 2014 11:28 am |
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2 Bar BOOST! |
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Joined: Wed May 21, 2008 3:10 pm Posts: 15112 Location: Goorrood
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Use the 45mm, they will be ok. I'd go for something in thee 350-450 range on injectors if you're just going to run unleaded. Avgas and racing fuel needs smaller injectors, but then you are good for both.
_________________ My garage is so leeg soos 'n hoer se hart...
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Mario@C-TEQ
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Post subject: Re: Sidedraughts & Throttle bodies Posted: Mon Nov 24, 2014 4:14 pm |
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1 bar boost |
Joined: Mon Apr 16, 2012 3:39 pm Posts: 1073
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With that compression 45mm will be ideal.
Remember race motors run much higher compression, but can only run race fuel and be used on track.
What cam will you be running, plays major factor with the L20 motors.
My dad use to race those motors in his race cars back in the day, you would be amazed at the amount of work that went into these. Many small trade secrets...
They use to ports 4-5 heads at a time, check all of them on the dyno, one with the best gains they would cut up and make measurement for future porting...
_________________ sales@c-teq.co.za
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IndianaJones
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Post subject: Re: Sidedraughts & Throttle bodies Posted: Mon Nov 24, 2014 6:33 pm |
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rookie |
Joined: Sun Oct 20, 2013 5:07 pm Posts: 94 Location: Western Cape
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The car needs to be very reliable, will be used for track days, gymkhana and club rallies, and I'd like it to run on 95, thus don't want to up the compression any more. Heads will be ported. Got any suggestions on a cam, Mario? Would cam choices also differ between sidies and ITB's?
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v!nny
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Post subject: Re: Sidedraughts & Throttle bodies Posted: Fri Jan 09, 2015 9:34 am |
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rookie |
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Joined: Wed Aug 27, 2014 10:06 am Posts: 90 Location: KZN
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3sgte
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Post subject: Re: Sidedraughts & Throttle bodies Posted: Fri Jan 09, 2015 9:45 am |
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1 bar boost |
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Joined: Wed May 07, 2008 11:27 am Posts: 1186 Location: Centurion
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_________________ Setting the standards
Project - SR5 (in progress) 2011 Mazda 5 2005 1.6 Hyundai Getz Ex 2008 Mazda 3 Ex 1984 Toyota Corolla Ex 2000 3.2 V6 Isuzu Frontier
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