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Streetracing.co.za • View topic - small port intake manifold on a blacktop 20v head?
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 Post subject: small port intake manifold on a blacktop 20v head?
PostPosted: Mon Mar 26, 2012 6:51 pm 
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Will it bolt on without any mods?I know I need to drill holes for injectors as well, will use my small port rail and injectors for now, from much observation fitting itb on stock 16v motors didn't make much difference unless you have much bigger cams and head work, so my point is, if fitting a small port intake on a blacktop head(modded to fit or just bolted on) how much of a drop will I see in performance?meaning what will I lose in the motors performance? I'm thinking of fitting a larger diameter TB of size 63mm inside diameter, will this help?will I get more torque out of the motor and less kw/hp?

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 Post subject: Re: small port intake manifold on a blacktop 20v head?
PostPosted: Mon Mar 26, 2012 7:00 pm 
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well, looking at it from the inlet manifolds point of view, you are swapping a 16v head with a 20v head, so as such it should be better, not to mention the added VVT. but looking at it from the 20v engines point of view... I'm not so sure if you are going to see any gains from this move...

so you will sit somewhere in-between a std 16v motor and a std 20v BT motor...


as far as fitting without mod... you would think you can be so lucky... NOT!!! :mrgreen:


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 Post subject: Re: small port intake manifold on a blacktop 20v head?
PostPosted: Mon Mar 26, 2012 7:32 pm 
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Forget the whole myth of bigger throttle body on a naturally aspirated motor making more power.
A single 60mm diameter TB can flow enough air to support +-260Hp naturally aspirated and +-400Hp with boost on a 2 litre 4 cylinder motor.

A TB with a hole that is too big reduces the airspeed into the intake manifold on a naturally aspirated setup and you will lose power.
You can however "flow" the TB by smoothing it out (remove any casting marks etc) and making sure it lines up 100% with the hole on the manifold.

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 Post subject: Re: small port intake manifold on a blacktop 20v head?
PostPosted: Mon Mar 26, 2012 11:18 pm 
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Well I have found an adapter to allow me to fit the small port manifold to the 20v, so that fixed up, was thinking, also to add the blacktop pistons to the mix too,will vvt still serve its function?if I get the car to run like a 20v this was, without the itb, it would be my goal, its just a base I want to start of with,

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 Post subject: Re: small port intake manifold on a blacktop 20v head?
PostPosted: Mon Mar 26, 2012 11:24 pm 
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u want to keep it aspirated ? and the goal of this all is to have a unique setup? vvt still stays the same u just changing to a diffrent intake!! the intake ports on the small port aswell are not port matched to suit the 20v head.. or i stand to be corrected ?

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 Post subject: Re: small port intake manifold on a blacktop 20v head?
PostPosted: Wed Mar 28, 2012 12:48 pm 
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You are correct they don't, I have source an adapter plate, so that part is fixed up, going to just drill it for the small rail to fit with its injectors,by the way do you have a blacktop head? Its just that I think the itb don't give much difference to the blacktop, but I stand to be corrected, mmmm NA for now, and turbo in a years time, was comparing head work on my 16v small port head, costly, but by the looks of it, it might just run with a blactop, so what's the point, so I'll just. Fit a blacktop head, that has a lot of work, n fit its pistons, should cost me 1500 for that, and enjoy it, I know if I get the itb its another 1500 so no need for that, might as well use the small port intake, also longer intake gives more torque right?

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 Post subject: Re: small port intake manifold on a blacktop 20v head?
PostPosted: Wed Mar 28, 2012 3:18 pm 
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blacktop is a high comp engine in stock form... its meant to rev thats were the itb come into play.. the ibts work even better with nice cams and higher compression!! my blacktop with supporting mods ran really strong in full road trim!! even giving the turbo cars a hard time.. and some of them i even ran infront!! I have seen a fully modded toda 20v taking out a e46 m3 quater mile.... and the e46 driver basically grew up in driving only m3z he can really drive his car!! u want more torque u can go with longer ram tubes on the itb... But just feel u would go backwards with small port intake.. but thats the theory behind it.. sometimes in practise will be a different story!

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 Post subject: Re: small port intake manifold on a blacktop 20v head?
PostPosted: Wed Mar 28, 2012 3:30 pm 
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Sweet I understand where you coming from, but was comparing a blacktop head to doing head work on a 16v head, unless I have fully worked head, I won't stand a good chance with 20v, so I'm moving to the blacktop setup, just not going to use itb, feel its too much of a pain when going turbo, as you said, many cars increased in performance when changed from itb to single and that's my main aim, 20v turbo,but fun now with with a NA head, tell me how much is a difference between a silvertop head and blacktop?

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 Post subject: Re: small port intake manifold on a blacktop 20v head?
PostPosted: Wed Mar 28, 2012 3:32 pm 
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BT has larger ports, smaller combustion chamber and better cams.

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 Post subject: Re: small port intake manifold on a blacktop 20v head?
PostPosted: Thu Mar 29, 2012 9:21 am 
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Which is better for turbo? Small port 16v or 20v?silvertop/blactop?

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 Post subject: Re: small port intake manifold on a blacktop 20v head?
PostPosted: Thu Mar 29, 2012 10:11 am 
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Anything is good for turbo my buddy... :lol: :lol: :lol:

I think sometimes people misunderstand me when I make this statement, but I'll make it again. The worse the head design is, the more you'll benefit from a turbo. Understand it like this, I'm not saying you'll a bad head is better to use, you will make more power ultimately using a better head. But with a bad head you get more benefit, because the turbo is able to overcome the bad qualities of the head by simply pushing harder. Or put another way, all the better to turbo if the head your engine has on is of a bad design.

Not that any of these Toyota heads are of bad design, I'm just trying to illustrate that turbo charging a vehicle is beneficial even if you don't think it would be.

Back to your question, guys have been making almost the same amounts of power and more torque in some cases, with the small port 16V head as apposed to the big port 16V head, but at lower RPM. Toyota themselves made the same amount of power with the small vs big port 16V supercharge motors.

These heads are all very good designs and choosing one over the other will be more a case of what kind of characteristics you want the engine to have, lower RPM power/torque or higher RPM power/torque. Choices influenced by the application you have in mind for the car in the end. For a car that will run on the street more often, I'd rather go for the smaller ports. So either the small port 16V or Silvertop 20V for more street oriented use, or if I was going to go for ultimate power and run it on the track and/or drag strip I'd go for the big port 16V or Blacktop 20V.

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 Post subject: Re: small port intake manifold on a blacktop 20v head?
PostPosted: Thu Mar 29, 2012 10:41 am 
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Thanks boksie, as I regard all this forums advise highly, so not much between small port and silvertop then,so moving from small port to silvertop? is going to help or just be the same?also will. I have pocket a ze piston with a comp ratio of 8.0.1 for the ST head?please know I want to use a small port manifold, many reasons why to that part.

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 Post subject: Re: small port intake manifold on a blacktop 20v head?
PostPosted: Thu Mar 29, 2012 10:51 am 
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No, you will benefit from going to a 20V Silvertop from a small or large port 16V, because the 3 valves allow better flow. That's the reason the small port makes the same power as the large port, because even though the port is smaller, it's still large enough to provide enough flow for the two intake valves. Going to a 20V you can now obviously get more air/charge through the 3 valves as opposed to only 2.

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 Post subject: Re: small port intake manifold on a blacktop 20v head?
PostPosted: Thu Mar 29, 2012 12:05 pm 
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mmm correct me if im wrong, but can the small port allow more boost then a 20v head?i know it depends on alot of other things, but was told the 20v head is 36cc and a small port is 39cc, meaning the 20v head is more of a high compression head and the 16v is lower tan that, so the cylinders can take more air in?or can this also be changed due to thicker HG and lower comp pistons?


another question, can i fit a ST head on a small port block?and will i need to change Pistons over? and will i need to pocket the ze low comp 8.0.1 piston for the ST head?

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 Post subject: Re: small port intake manifold on a blacktop 20v head?
PostPosted: Thu Mar 29, 2012 12:27 pm 
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Combustion chamber has everything and nothing to do with how much you can boost. You can have no combustion chamber in the head, but pistons with massive pockets or a thick head gasket and you'll still be able to boost high. But in essence using the same pistons on both using exactly the same fuel, you'll be able to push a bit more boost into the 16V.

All the 4AGE heads fit on all the 4AGE blocks.

You don't have to pocket them, but then the motor becomes an interference design. Meaning that if the cambelt ever breaks, the piston might hit the 5th valve. And if you run the low comp 8:1 GZE pistons with a 20V Silvertop head the CR is around 8.6:1.

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 Post subject: Re: small port intake manifold on a blacktop 20v head?
PostPosted: Thu Mar 29, 2012 12:38 pm 
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That hitting 5th valve story and pocketing for 5th valve is myth.. it 10 out of 10times bends the exhaust valves.. so thats the main 1 to pocket and its at the corners.. will post a pic later :D @ xploding lol man u love to try to most complicated route!! :mrgreen:

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 Post subject: Re: small port intake manifold on a blacktop 20v head?
PostPosted: Thu Mar 29, 2012 12:48 pm 
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 Post subject: Re: small port intake manifold on a blacktop 20v head?
PostPosted: Thu Mar 29, 2012 12:58 pm 
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 Post subject: Re: small port intake manifold on a blacktop 20v head?
PostPosted: Thu Mar 29, 2012 1:04 pm 
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 Post subject: Re: small port intake manifold on a blacktop 20v head?
PostPosted: Thu Mar 29, 2012 1:05 pm 
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